BattleAxe First Read: Chapter Seventeen: The Ancient Barrows (Part I)

[pangolin20]

Chapter Sixteen | Table of Contents | Chapter Seventeen (Part II)

NRSG: A good day, everyone, and welcome back to BattleAxe! Last time, we had much hate for Gilbert and everyone prepared to leave the woods. Now for the reader post:

 

On chapter 16, Chessy notes that the “Sign of the Plough” is, of course, derived from “the Sign of the Cross, which is actually a prayer invoking the name of God”. (Probably should have said out loud that I knew what it was derived from.) She also notes that the book has Axis use the Sign of the Plough as if it can ward off enchantments on her own, which is “a form of the sin of superstition, which in Catholic morality is the belief that merely doing something […] will ‘make’ or ‘force’ something to happen the way you want it to”. (Thank you for the explanation, Chessy!)

Consequently, I will give it this:

Maria Monk Redux: 26

I would not necessarily mind Douglass putting in a religion based on Christianity, but, since she portrays it as a central part of the conflict of the books, and puts in all kinds of stuff from actual Christianity, I think she ought to have made an effort to portray it right, at the least.

She also notes that the tone of Axis’s confrontation with Gilbert is quite off: everyone should be shocked that Gilbert dared to do this, not angry. Indeed, I myself get the impression that they expected him to do this, in which case I want to ask why in the world they did not bother to keep him supervised at all times.

Finally, here is her improved take on Gilbert’s possible crisis of faith.

Epistler also notes that it is specifically Ogden, the fat Brother, who “hilariously” struggles to get on his donkey. Given how Veremund climbing on was not even mentioned, that is not a good look.

All the Isms: 7

Finally, I would like to rename some counts: Why Are They So Evil? to Papier-Mâché Villains and Calm Down, Edgelord to Edgy Equals Mature, Right?

 

With that done, let me go on with the next chapter!

 

Chapter Seventeen: The Ancient Barrows

And those would be…? Ah, I see that they are slightly to the northeast of the Silent Woman Woods, so perfectly on route.

So Axis and co. ride out of the Woods at “mid-afternoon”, where they are met by “a profoundly relieved” Belial and some Axemen. Belial raises his eyebrows at the Brothers riding on their donkeys, but Axis, who is exhilarated to be in the open again, kicks Belaguez into a gallop without saying anything. Arne and Timozel herd Gilbert back to the camp. Belial and the Axemen speed along after the others, while the Brothers keep “a more sedate pace”.

On the way to the camp, Ogden and Veremund also pause briefly “to share greetings and words” with Jack the “pig boy”. So they are indeed related. (Also, why is he called pig boy when he is clearly an adult? What, because he is “simple”? I will not give it a point yet, but I am suspicious.)

Scene break, and we pick up with Faraday. She is so overwhelmed by Axis riding into camp unharmed that “she almost burst[s] into tears”, and she quickly turns away as he rides by and smiled and nods at her. Oh, poor Faraday. Now we get filled in on what happened to her in the meantime.

She managed to return to bed undetected, and lay awake until dawn, with Yr curled in her arms. She constantly relived the vision of “feeling the heat consume her”, hearing the swordfight, seeing Axis, covered in blood, stretch out his hand to her, and feeling the blood drip down her body.

When she arose, she spent “a full forty minutes” scrubbing herself, “evading [Merlion’s] stares and questions”. She was very quiet during the day, and Yr stayed close.

All in all, this is quite nicely written. Why does Faraday get this realistic reaction, while the others can barely react to being in the Woods? Not that I complain necessarily, but it still feels off.

Well, once Axis has returned, everyone begins to prepare for “breaking camp and moving out”. Gilbert is not given time to rest, because Axis wants him gone as soon as possible. He picks five men to escort him back to the Tower of the Seneschal, and gives their leader firm instructions to succeed. Gilbert also gets “[t]he packet of documents that Ogden and Veremund had made up for him” (when?).

And then Gilbert apparently leaves, not to be seen again for the entirety of the book. And that is… maybe not the best idea when there was so much effort toward making him look like a villain? Why bother with that, then? Well, at least we are away from the Catholic-bashing for the time being.

The next day (the 1^st of October), the company moves out “well before dawn”. High time, I would say. Ogden and Veremund decide to go at the head of the column, “their donkeys surprisingly spritely and well able to keep up with the horses.” However, Axis gets so “frustrated” with their continual bickering that he sends Veremund back to the women and keeps Ogden near him “to discuss the meaning of the prophecy”.

Veremund happily joins the women, and both Merlion and Faraday find him “delightful company”. Good on them, though I personally fail to see it. Okay, I personally find Veremund more bearable then Ogden, so… During this day and the next, Timozel often comes by, and between them, she “sometimes [finds] the heart to smile”. But the vision refuses to fade, and she becomes “deeply upset” whenever Axis rides by or talks with them. She knows he is puzzled by her behaviour, but every time she looks at him, she can see the vision again. And we have another description of the vision, even though we had one just now.

PPP: 27

Also, are we sure the vision is not magical, given that it comes up every time she looks at Axis? Well, on the morning of the 3^rd of October, Timozel, “in an effort to distract Faraday from whatever was depressing her”, tells her about the Prophecy, “which ha[s] imprinted itself so vividly on his mind that he [can] recite it word for word.” The Prophecy is definitely magical, then. He does have trouble recalling the last verse.

The Prophecy apparently fascinates her so much that the vision “recede[s] to the back of her mind” for the first time. How… lovely. She asks Timozel and Veremund many questions, as she wants to know everything Veremund can tell her “about the Forbidden and the ancient land of Tencendor”. And why is she all this interested in these subjects now? All of this just feels a bit too much like mind-control to me.

Now we get a scene, as Faraday pulls her cloak a little tighter and edges her horse closer to Veremund. She asks if the Forbidden and the Acharites “lived in harmony in Achar”. Veremund first corrects her, saying it was Tencendor back then, and then says they did, “for many thousands of years”. Which is still a ridiculously large timeline.

Faraday frowns, and asks how they could do so when the Forbidden are “so terrible, so frightening”. Veremund then says that the Seneschal teaches that the Icarii and Avar are frightening (which we know), and that it was “only after the Seneschal gained influence in Tencendor, teaching the way of the Plough, that the rift between the races started.”

So… they could live peacefully together because the Seneschal did not exist, and so the Seneschal was the sole cause of the “rift between the races”. This is just such an oversimplified way of looking at such a conflict. Like, for the Seneschal to have gained influence, there must have been people who hated the Icarii and Avar already. And yes, they may not have used too much violence, so that it might be “peaceful”, but I do get the idea that Douglass means that the Seneschal was the start of all the trouble.

FYRP: 49

Faraday, understandably, does not like these implications. She asks if Veremund means that the Icarii and the Avar were not at fault during the Wars of the Axe, and that the Seneschal started it. Merlion then speaks up, saying that the Forbidden were “evil creatures” and that that is why the Seneschal helped the Acharites drive them away and “clear their filthy nests and forests”.

1) “Nests”? Is it generally believed that the Icarii had/have nests, then? That might be an interesting bit to explore.

2) Okay, there goes a new count: A Gold Star For Worldbuilding (based on A Sticker for Worldbuilding by Crooked Ear Llama.) This will go for whenever the worldbuilding is particularly weak. I do not care to give backpoints, so there we go:

A Gold Star for Worldbuilding: 1

Well, that silences the others for a bit, but Faraday turns back to Veremund, and asks “what sort of creatures” the Icarii and Avar were. Veremund thinks for a bit and says they have “their songs and their histories and their records”, but those tell little about “what they looked like or how they lived”. Then you either did not care to read these carefully enough or you are just lying here, because I think you certainly could pick up something from thousands of years of documents.

He goes on, and let me just show you this…

The Icarii preferred high places and studied the movements of the stars and of the sun and the moon.

Um, why does Veremund act like it is such an outlandish concept to her, and why does he list this as a primary attribute of the Icarii? I would think the Acharites have a concept of astronomy themselves… The impression I get here is that we are supposed to think the Acharites have lost their concept of astronomy, and the Icarii were the ones who introduced it in the first place.

And both these notions are frankly ludicrous, and they again paint the Icarii as the “more advanced” race, which… if you want to do this kind of plot, the moral should be that the groups are equal.

FYRP: 51

This Is Not How Things Work: 11

Perhaps that is why they were called the people of the Wing.

Or perhaps it is because they have wings, as we could see in the prologue, or as their name suggests? Can you please stop this endless ~mystery~, Douglass? In fact, let me repurpose This Is What the Mystery.

This Is What the Mystery: 1

Also, Veremund, why would you not know this from those texts? You and Ogden had 39 years to read them! Would you never have come upon something explaining why they were called that, then?

Ill Logic: 14

They tended to live in the hills and mountains of Tencendor.

Which you just already said, Veremund.

The Avar, why, they were people of the forest and had a special relationship with the land.

Well, good to see that the Avar have a ☆special relationship with nature☆. That makes me not all think that they will be a bunch of stereotypes. Also, again we have the Avar being “better” at this than the Acharites. I doubt that this was meant to be read the same way as with the Icarii (Douglass likes the Icarii over the Avar), but still.

FYRP: 53

Some of the passages that Brother Ogden and I have read suggest that they could talk to the trees.

Again, you should know this! Why are you so very bad at keeping up a disguise?!

Ill Logic: 15

Also, why are you telling Faraday this!? You talked to Jack earlier, so you know she is afraid of the trees! This will not help you make your case, and it will unnecessarily remind her of a very scary episode!

ASWLT: 7

Ill Logic: 16

At this, Faraday gasps and reins her horse back. She says that Merlion was right: they were “evil creatures” and it was right that the Seneschal drove them away. See, Veremund?

Scene break, and we are back to summary. That afternoon, the group reaches “a series of massive mounds, each about one hundred paces high and two hundred long”. So those are the Ancient Barrows, then. They have steep sides that are covered in “low bushes and turf”, and each has “a flattened top” covered in “bright yellow and red flowers”. There are “almost thirty of them” (26, to be precise), that stand in a crescent “for over half a league”.

Oh, this is nice! Finally something different from the utterly generic stuff we have had so far. Axis stops the column of Axe-Wielders and asks Belial what these are. Ogden answers, saying that “it is said” that “these are the burial mounds of some of the ancient kings of Tencendor”. That explains it.

Ogden rides up to Axis, and Axis gives him a flat stare, “dislike for the man simmering just below the surface”. Over the past days, Ogden has talked about Tencendor, and the more information he gives Axis, the more uncomfortable he feels. Then ask him not to talk about it anymore? Seriously, how hard is this?

Ill Logic: 17

Then… Well, the next bit has quite a bit to talk about, and I am already close to the length of the chapter by now, so let me say that any chapters 2585 words or longer will be split, so I can take a break now. Until next time!

Comments

[chessybell_90]

The 'pig boy' title is strongly reminding me of how servants and slaves often got referred to as 'the girl' or 'the boy', so I think it's classism, which is a different sort of problem.

Ah, yes. Of course the woman is the one to have an emotional reaction, women are such sensitive creatures didn't you know? More seriously, there's a entrenched stereotype that it's 'feminine' and thus 'unmanly' to have a broader emotional range then a plank of wood, which is likely why Faraday is actually reacting to the scary demon-haunted forest and Axis & co. aren't.

Remind me again, what was this series touted as?

... So all the pagans were nice peaceful folk until the Church came along and taught them hate. Which we know because the Roman Republic and Carthage got along just fine with nary a quibble! Not like the Romans cited the quaint Carthaginian custom of sacrificing small children as why every good Roman was obliged to hate Carthage. On that note, Carthago delenda est.

Oh, no love poetry? No descriptions of domestic scenes, the grand bustle of wealthy palaces, or lavish descriptions of great cities? 'Tis true that yon common sod disappears into the mists of time, but surely the elites writing to you have plenty of stuff to say about themselves.

Okay, it's not quite at point-level yet since no one's claimed the Seneschal suppressed astronomy, but the bit about Icarii being astronomers is reminding me of people claiming the Church suppressed scientific advancement and in particular the whole 'they persecuted Galileo!' thing. (Galileo actually got into trouble for basically being bad at academic infighting, not the Copernican Theory. Which was also wrong, and it was Kepler who got it right.)

I suppose Axis thinks it would be 'unmanly' to actually admit he want Ogden to find another conversation topic.

[epistler]

The 'pig boy' title is strongly reminding me of how servants and slaves often got referred to as 'the girl' or 'the boy', so I think it's classism, which is a different sort of problem.

This whole series has some very ugly elitist, condescending overtones which I really dislike.

[chessybell_90]

Same.

[pangolin20]

The 'pig boy' title is strongly reminding me of how servants and slaves often got referred to as 'the girl' or 'the boy', so I think it's classism, which is a different sort of problem.

NRSG: That certainly makes sense, too.

Ah, yes. Of course the woman is the one to have an emotional reaction, women are such sensitive creatures didn't you know? More seriously, there's a entrenched stereotype that it's 'feminine' and thus 'unmanly' to have a broader emotional range then a plank of wood, which is likely why Faraday is actually reacting to the scary demon-haunted forest and Axis & co. aren't.

Ah, of course! And that is why Axis's most common emotion is anger. (I did know this, but somehow I did not make the connection here.)

Remind me again, what was this series touted as?

"Feminist", for example... And "tirelessly inventive rather than repetitive" (because I just noticed so mach of that.)

Oh, no love poetry? No descriptions of domestic scenes, the grand bustle of wealthy palaces, or lavish descriptions of great cities? 'Tis true that yon common sod disappears into the mists of time, but surely the elites writing to you have plenty of stuff to say about themselves.

Yes, I am quite sure that there are some records of those (or at least I hope so), and that Veremund is lying for no reason.

Okay, it's not quite at point-level yet since no one's claimed the Seneschal suppressed astronomy, but the bit about Icarii being astronomers is reminding me of people claiming the Church suppressed scientific advancement and in particular the whole 'they persecuted Galileo!' thing.

Good catch! I will watch out for any further stuff in this vein.

I suppose Axis thinks it would be 'unmanly' to actually admit he want Ogden to find another conversation topic.

Or to actually ask Ogden...

[chessybell_90]

Maybe the people describing it as 'tirelessly inventive' were referring to all the different ways Douglass shoe-horned 'Catholics bad!' in there? :)

Or maybe it's all the stuff she got dead wrong, like pregnancy, grassland ecology, and monastic life...

[pangolin20]

NRSG: I would rather think it would apply to Enchanter and StarMan, given just how badly those derail...

[chessybell_90]

That too I suppose.

[wolfgoddess77]

- Ah, I see that they are slightly to the northeast of the Silent Woman Woods

Are we ever going to get a reason for that name? Any at all? I'm guessing not. I usually really like seeing what fantasy authors call landmarks, but in cases like this, there should be some kind of lore associated with it. In other cases, it's not necessary, since the area is sometimes self-explanatory, like in ASoIaF, one of the mountain ranges is called the Frostfangs, which are located far to the north, and they're an incredibly dangerous and vicious place. Self-explanatory. But with Silent Woman Woods? Who is the woman? Why is she silent? LORE, PLEASE.

- She is so overwhelmed by Axis riding into camp unharmed that “she almost burst[s] into tears”

That's quite the reaction about someone who has been nothing but a jackass to you. The only way this would make even a tiny bit of sense is if Faraday has a degradation kink or something like that. Now, if that was the case, okay, that's completely fine. You do you. But I'm guessing that's not it, so I'm just left scratching my head wondering how she could possibly like this guy. Can I just pretend she's upset that something didn't eat him while he was in the forest?

- And that is… maybe not the best idea when there was so much effort toward making him look like a villain?

I'm okay with this. The less we see of him, the fewer opportunities Axis has to verbally abuse him. I'm kind of cheering for him to GTFO as quickly as he can.

- Timozel, “in an effort to distract Faraday from whatever was depressing her”,

I like Timozel. He's a good guy. Can he be the protagonist instead?

- And why is she all this interested in these subjects now? All of this just feels a bit too much like mind-control to me.

I definitely agree that it feels unnatural, but I can also kind of understand her curiosity. Wasn't it said earlier that all mention of the Forbidden was...well, forbidden? Now she has someone who knows about them, giving her the chance to actually feed that curiosity when she never could before.

- Also, Veremund, why would you not know this from those texts? You and Ogden had 39 years to read them! Would you never have come upon something explaining why they were called that, then?

I'm going to amuse myself by believing that all of those giant books were mainly blank, with just a random sentence here and there, and that's why there's hardly information known about the races.

- At this, Faraday gasps and reins her horse back. She says that Merlion was right: they were “evil creatures” and it was right that the Seneschal drove them away. See, Veremund?

Well done, idiot. For a mythical creature, you're exceptionally dumb, aren't you? Which could actually be some good characterization--a being cut off from humanity who now has to try and blend in, but has absolutely no idea how--except that we're supposed to believe that these two have perfect disguises and no one could ever figure out that they weren't human.

- That afternoon, the group reaches “a series of massive mounds, each about one hundred paces high and two hundred long”. They have steep sides that are covered in “low bushes and turf”, and each has “a flattened top” covered in “bright yellow and red flowers”.

I wish we could get the group's reaction to seeing these. I've actually seen historical Native American burial mounds with my own eyes, and they're...majestic, to say the least. This could be a very effective moment of wonder.

[pangolin20]

Are we ever going to get a reason for that name? Any at all? I'm guessing not. I usually really like seeing what fantasy authors call landmarks, but in cases like this, there should be some kind of lore associated with it. In other cases, it's not necessary, since the area is sometimes self-explanatory, like in ASoIaF, one of the mountain ranges is called the Frostfangs, which are located far to the north, and they're an incredibly dangerous and vicious place. Self-explanatory. But with Silent Woman Woods? Who is the woman? Why is she silent? LORE, PLEASE.

NRSG: Not so far, but I hold out hope that the next five books might have an answer, given how messy Douglass is with giving information.

That's quite the reaction about someone who has been nothing but a jackass to you. The only way this would make even a tiny bit of sense is if Faraday has a degradation kink or something like that. Now, if that was the case, okay, that's completely fine. You do you. But I'm guessing that's not it, so I'm just left scratching my head wondering how she could possibly like this guy. Can I just pretend she's upset that something didn't eat him while he was in the forest?

Their whole "relationship" seems, given the later books, mostly based on unconscious mind-control on Axis's part, and I do not like it.

I'm okay with this. The less we see of him, the fewer opportunities Axis has to verbally abuse him. I'm kind of cheering for him to GTFO as quickly as he can.

Yes, I am quite glad we do not see any more of him this novel.

I like Timozel. He's a good guy. Can he be the protagonist instead?

I think I asked the same thing myself a few times too.

I definitely agree that it feels unnatural, but I can also kind of understand her curiosity. Wasn't it said earlier that all mention of the Forbidden was...well, forbidden? Now she has someone who knows about them, giving her the chance to actually feed that curiosity when she never could before.

Hmmm, that is entirely a fair point, though we ought to have seen more of that curiosity before now.

Well done, idiot. For a mythical creature, you're exceptionally dumb, aren't you? Which could actually be some good characterization--a being cut off from humanity who now has to try and blend in, but has absolutely no idea how--except that we're supposed to believe that these two have perfect disguises and no one could ever figure out that they weren't human.

And they should also have had more than enough time to get used to this before now!

I wish we could get the group's reaction to seeing these. I've actually seen historical Native American burial mounds with my own eyes, and they're...majestic, to say the least. This could be a very effective moment of wonder.

It certainly ought to be.

[wolfgoddess77]

Their whole "relationship" seems, given the later books, mostly based on unconscious mind-control on Axis's part, and I do not like it.

Well, I'm suddenly a hundred times more uncomfortable than I was a minute ago... As much as I hate the "deeply in love even though we've barely shared five words and he treats me like shit" thing, I will still admit that it's better than mind-control, because at least the former still implies free will.

[maegwin_of_hern]

She knows he is puzzled by her behaviour, but every time she looks at him, she can see the vision again.
Wow, he actually notices a difference in her behavior. I am pleasantly surprised.

Also, Tencendor sounds like the original state of the countries in A:tLA, where everyone lived in peace and harmony until the Avatar disappeared the Seneschal appeared and the Fire Nation the Acharites attacked.

[pangolin20]

Wow, he actually notices a difference in her behavior. I am pleasantly surprised.

NRSG: Me too!

Also, Tencendor sounds like the original state of the countries in A:tLA, where everyone lived in peace and harmony until the Avatar disappeared the Seneschal appeared and the Fire Nation the Acharites attacked.

Yes, that is presumably what Douglass meant Tencendor to be. Given what we will hear next time... it seems that is was far from harmonious.